Curse

Slowpokeking · Aug 02, 2011, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamingGirl

Then they just have to keep trying, learning as they go. Eventually they will get it

It's not that easy like you said. I helped many players about their main storyline missions in 2007 and after I came back. These missions are piece of cake to me but it still took a long while for me to get into DoA groups.

Normally, if they don't forget about the elite mission, they will simply abandon the prot build and run UA/HB/WoH.

Bandwagon · Aug 02, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Prot Prayers are fine L2P.

Learning Curves are grand, unfortunately Power Creep graced GW with terrible passive defense BS, making Learning Curves optional at best.

Speed Clears are the minority of PvE and work along the lines of build warzing a zone for fast clears. If a primary profession cannot handle one of the roles, tough. Sh!t will not be balanced around speed clears kids.

This is a troll thread if its about PvP.

Outerworld · Aug 02, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

You haven't given any reason to buff the Prot line other than "New players struggle to find DoA groups" and that's far from a valid point.

Spiritz · Aug 03, 2011, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Ok heres my 5 cents worth.
Gw is a damn sight easier now than when i started almost 4 1/2yrs ago - all the new stuff does help and heck even new players now can get summoning stone with the imp to help them out - talk about spoon fed.
The op doesnt seem to have an actual grasp of gw`s concept - theres a big big clue in the games name - GUILD Wars.
Ok not every player wants to be in a guild i can accept but theres thousands of guilds out there - some with just newbie players , some with casual players and some which have set reqs to join.The recruiting section here can be used to see which guilds require what or if any reqs at all.
I can easily state that apart from my guild/alliance and several other guilds ive known thru time - none of us have ever rejected or lol`d at any new/old players who have joined.
A good guild is one that helps/looks after players be it thru offering advice or even helping with missions if they seem hard for the new player.In order for a player to learn things in gw that player has to be able to listen and learn and you can bet some guilds would have had new players who want spoonfeeding or everything free and thats a major pain and im sure you can see where they are comming from.Elitist guilds are that for a reason - they only want the best players because guildwars is serious business to them and being beaten makes them cry or rage quit etc ( not all elite guilds are like that but some are ).

I`ll also add this - if a female player on a new account can get factions done with limited skills and heros then surely anyone has the ability - and the female was my wife incase you were wondering.She joined several guild members in the process and i cant recall any person moaning how badly skilled that account was etc.
I can see quite a few male egos being hurt reading a female player can do something that many male players have a problem doing ( keep seeing all the - females cant play gw ... etc ).

The Drunkard · Aug 03, 2011, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

It's already not easy for new players to get into Elite missions even in NM. When they get in the group members only want certain build(DWG, panic, IMBA, ST), if you don't run you will get kicked out from the group and GL with heroes, which was too hard for them.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway

So, how exactly is buffing prot supposed to help newer players if they don't have a monk or the skills required for DoA, nevermind the knowledge of the pulls and tactics for each of the areas?

Squishy ftw · Aug 03, 2011, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I completely disagree with the OP. I think that the problem here is that prot's strengths increases as the player's skill increases. Which imo is exactly the way it should be. So don't ask for a prot buff but improve yourself as a proactive monk (don't just redbar watch) instead.

Also, ST /shelter and SY should not be the goal. Both should be toned down a notch.

Outerworld · Aug 03, 2011, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

Ok heres my 5 cents worth.
Gw is a damn sight easier now than when i started almost 4 1/2yrs ago - all the new stuff does help and heck even new players now can get summoning stone with the imp to help them out - talk about spoon fed.
The op doesnt seem to have an actual grasp of gw`s concept - theres a big big clue in the games name - GUILD Wars.
Ok not every player wants to be in a guild i can accept but theres thousands of guilds out there - some with just newbie players , some with casual players and some which have set reqs to join.The recruiting section here can be used to see which guilds require what or if any reqs at all.
I can easily state that apart from my guild/alliance and several other guilds ive known thru time - none of us have ever rejected or lol`d at any new/old players who have joined.
A good guild is one that helps/looks after players be it thru offering advice or even helping with missions if they seem hard for the new player.In order for a player to learn things in gw that player has to be able to listen and learn and you can bet some guilds would have had new players who want spoonfeeding or everything free and thats a major pain and im sure you can see where they are comming from.Elitist guilds are that for a reason - they only want the best players because guildwars is serious business to them and being beaten makes them cry or rage quit etc ( not all elite guilds are like that but some are ).

I`ll also add this - if a female player on a new account can get factions done with limited skills and heros then surely anyone has the ability - and the female was my wife incase you were wondering.She joined several guild members in the process and i cant recall any person moaning how badly skilled that account was etc.
I can see quite a few male egos being hurt reading a female player can do something that many male players have a problem doing ( keep seeing all the - females cant play gw ... etc ).

What did any of that have to do with a buff to Prot Prayers?

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Protting is so unique to this game, it should be left as it is. It's already extremely strong in the correct hands, you just may not see the effectiveness when there are little heals.

And I guess this is a PvE discussion? Well, mobs were designed to hit hard but to eventually die since they have no heals, so sustained pressure is only found in lategame content/new WiK/WoC content (and it's still not high enough), so the idea of pre-protting against frontliners becomes blurred.

Agreed that high end teams rely imbagons and ST rits too much, but prot prayers doesn't need to be buffed.

And your suggestions are absurd. Do you play as a Dervish? Coz you seem to be a fan of facerolling on your keyboard.

simple problem of prot prayers is that it's single target? Holy shit, how about we change all monk skills into whole party heals????
This thread makes me angry.

Slowpokeking · Aug 03, 2011, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

You haven't given any reason to buff the Prot line other than "New players struggle to find DoA groups" and that's far from a valid point.

I already gave my point

1 Too many enchantment removal in elite mission and few mobs in elite missions got counter spirit skills, chants are unremoveable. Yeah there are some hexes stop you to use chant but easy to remove.

2 Most of them only affect 1 target at a time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_DoA_Heroway

So, how exactly is buffing prot supposed to help newer players if they don't have a monk or the skills required for DoA, nevermind the knowledge of the pulls and tactics for each of the areas?

They can have more choices, easier to get in rather than have to run some other builds.

Yeah hero is possible, but it's pretty hard for newbies, especially Foundry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Protting is so unique to this game, it should be left as it is. It's already extremely strong in the correct hands, you just may not see the effectiveness when there are little heals.

And I guess this is a PvE discussion? Well, mobs were designed to hit hard but to eventually die since they have no heals, so sustained pressure is only found in lategame content/new WiK/WoC content (and it's still not high enough), so the idea of pre-protting against frontliners becomes blurred.

Agreed that high end teams rely imbagons and ST rits too much, but prot prayers doesn't need to be buffed.

And your suggestions are absurd. Do you play as a Dervish? Coz you seem to be a fan of facerolling on your keyboard.

simple problem of prot prayers is that it's single target? Holy shit, how about we change all monk skills into whole party heals????
This thread makes me angry.

Except bonders, it's not strong compare to IMBAGON and ST.

Why are you agreeing that people rely on IMBAGON and ST too much but still refuse to buff prot prayer?

I already gave ideas about how to buff it.

cataphract · Aug 03, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

I already gave my point

1 Too many enchantment removal in elite mission and few mobs in elite missions got counter spirit skills, chants are unremoveable. Yeah there are some hexes stop you to use chant but easy to remove.

2 Most of them only affect 1 target at a time.

1) I never had any difficulty maintaining PS in DoA on team member or myself.
2) It's what makes playing monk both harder and more fun than ritu. You actually have to pay attention to your teammate's movements and the movements of your foes. Pre protting is pro. Or so I hear.

Slowpokeking · Aug 03, 2011, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

1) I never had any difficulty maintaining PS in DoA on team member or myself.
2) It's what makes playing monk both harder and more fun than ritu. You actually have to pay attention to your teammate's movements and the movements of your foes. Pre protting is pro. Or so I hear.

IMBA/ST don't even have to worry about that, their skills also affect the whole team rather than 1 person. Sure you can do it well but not everyone else. Mallyx fight is no enchantment allowed.

Why should it be harder and have so many disadvantages? Can't prot monks get some buff and make some of their elite enchantments affect the whole group? Also in random groups people usually just think about fast and safety, most of them will pass on a prot monk an pick a IMBA/ST when they have a choice.

I still remember in 2007 mesmer got very limited AOE skills, if Anet simply keep their way till today it will not be cool.

cataphract · Aug 03, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Why are you griping about prots and enchants so much? It's easier to enjoy playing a class that has seen the most nerfs and that commands so much respect almost every mob either targets them first or has skills specifically meant to counter them.

Monks and warriors get the most hate for a reason. They're ftw.

Outerworld · Aug 03, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

I already gave my point

1 Too many enchantment removal in elite mission and few mobs in elite missions got counter spirit skills, chants are unremoveable. Yeah there are some hexes stop you to use chant but easy to remove.

2 Most of them only affect 1 target at a time.

First; the enemies in elite missions don't have THAT many removals and second; even if they did, buffing prot prayers wouldn't counter it.

Slowpokeking · Aug 03, 2011, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Why are you griping about prots and enchants so much? It's easier to enjoy playing a class that has seen the most nerfs and that commands so much respect almost every mob either targets them first or has skills specifically meant to counter them.

Monks and warriors get the most hate for a reason. They're ftw.

Because right now it's a little bit out of time compare to other classes' damage reduction skills. At least it shall get some buff to be brought to a closer level.
I also think other classes need buff such as elementalists since they are suppose to be the NO.1 DPS caster class.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

First; the enemies in elite missions don't have THAT many removals and second; even if they did, buffing prot prayers wouldn't counter it.

Compare to counter spirit they do.

Like in DOA

Margonite Anur Kaya got Feedback.

Margonite Anur Dabi got Strip Enchantment

Soul Tormentor got Gaze of Contempt and Corrupt Enchantment.

Earth Tormentor got Rending Sweep.

Anguish Titan got Inspired Enchantment

Despair Titan got Chilblains, other than this they also have Desecrate Enchantments and Defile Enchantments, deal damager base on enchantment.

Greater Dream Rider got Shatter Enchantment and Mirror of Disenchantment.

Thought of Darkness got Shatter Enchantment

Curse of Darkness got Gaze of Contempt

Bosses

The Greater Darkness got Shatter Enchantment

Stygian Lord mesmer got Shatter Enchantment

Stygian Lord necromancer got Strip Enchantment

The Fury and The Black Beast of Arrgh got Fingers of Chaos, remove enchantment from monks

Shaunur the Divine got Scourge Enchantment, not removal but deal damage upon casting enchantment.

Most importantly, Mallyx got Banish Enchantment.

How many of them got counter spirit skills?

Stygian Golem got Banishing Strike.

Stygian Lord mesmer got Spiritual Pain.

Anti Chant?

Mind Tormentor got Soothing Images.

Margonite Anur Dabi got Vocal Minority.

Despair Titan got Ulcerous Lungs.

I said about it, Anet can remove some of the enchantment skills on those mobs' skill bar.

Xenomortis · Aug 03, 2011, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I suspect all that anti-encantment was added in a pathetic effort to get people to use Rits (and Paras) as defensive characters. Then they overbuffed Rits.
Is this really a trend you want to continue?

Slowpokeking · Aug 03, 2011, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I suspect all that anti-encantment was added in a pathetic effort to get people to use Rits (and Paras) as defensive characters. Then they overbuffed Rits.
Is this really a trend you want to continue?

I just think remove some of their removal skills from their skill bar is a way to "buff" prot prayer.

Also most of these removal skills do not just remove enchantment from players, but also deal damage/cause deg/steal enchantment skill/disable skills.

cat_v2 · Aug 03, 2011, 08:52 PM // 20:52

If those mobs you mentioned posed a problem on a level you're describing it - how do you explain people sucessfully farming DoA for years? Okay, broken SF has made it possible, but still - someone had to keep the damage dealers protected and alive.

Slowpokeking · Aug 03, 2011, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat_v2

If those mobs you mentioned posed a problem on a level you're describing it - how do you explain people sucessfully farming DoA for years? Okay, broken SF has made it possible, but still - someone had to keep the damage dealers protected and alive.

Sure, experienced players can farm it well from years ago. But we can see through these years, many classes got buffed. Are these changes unnecessary? No.

Right now I already compared prot prayer with IMBA/ST, it got many disadvantages, do you think it's not true?

Outerworld · Aug 03, 2011, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

Right now I already compared prot prayer with IMBA/ST, it got many disadvantages, do you think it's not true?

That just means ST and Imba needs nerfing, not Prot needs buffing which I think is the point you seem to have missed.

ZephyLynx · Aug 03, 2011, 09:28 PM // 21:28

It seems to me that the OP is simply making a case for prot prayers not being good in DoA. Pretty much every example of prot being outclassed is made about DoA. Ok, you made a valid point that prot monks are not as good in DoA as ST/Imba, but this does NOT mean that prot monks need buffing.

You seem to harp on and give examples exclusively about the ELITE area DoA. That area is not designed for beginners. That area is hard for a reason, and not all builds work well.

Take MM for example. MM's are very useful in general PvE, they soak up damage, provide a wall, and can explode. However, in another (more difficult that general play) area such as FoW, they are not very useful at all. However, I don't think that mm's should be buffed just so they can be used effectively in FoW.

Fire magic is terrible against the destroyers. Should we buff fire magic (on that reason alone)?

All the afflicted rangers carry blind. Should warriors/assassins/dervishes be buffed to have blind resistance/immunity?

I play prot/hybrid monk all the time. In general, I have never really had any problems at all. I don't believe that prot prayers is underpowered at all. For GENERAL PLAY, prot prayers brings much utility (and the ability to hybrid) when ST/Imba cannot. ST/Imba cannot really remove conditions, hexes, or heal like a monk can. ST/Imba are specialized builds, whereas a hybrid monk has much more versatility.

In GENERAL PLAY, there is not THAT much enchant removal. Skills should not be balanced around elite areas.

Another point is that ST/Imba are fairly mindless builds. Mash skills on recharge is basically what it comes down to. However, prot prayers requires much more skillful play to get better results.